You two need to get a room.

>>22047 My mistake. Praise be to JC!

I pity any one person that runs for President. No matter what color, he has a tough job. People didn't vote FOR Obama. They voted for CHANGE. He inherited a big mess and had Bush stayed in the White House, he would have been against the same problem..then everyone blamed Obama for the mess. Any one connected with economics can see that. The first and foremost job of the President is to "Insure domestic tranquillity." Our forefathers who wrote that had no conception of 'debt'. The choices Obama made were "quick fix" and the debt suffered. Better than you and I shooting each other for a loaf of bread. The stock market and our economy are a house of cards and the "quick fix" will only last for so long. Come back and see me 10 yrs. from now.

>>22041 haha.. JesusChrist runs this site!! I don't want him reaching across the pond to bitch-slap anyone!! ALL HAIL JESUSCHRIST!! ;P

I accept the other compliments being made, and yes, there are varying ways of measuring success. I admire you for keeping your family strong during rough seas. I know you are a success as a father, husband and man, though we've never met. You must be very proud of the people your children are becoming, thanks to your guidance and wisdom. I certainly hope 2013 is a better year for you financially and maybe you can have a nice vacation as well.

We have not always been in agreeance on some issues, but there's always been a sensible conversation. I greatly appreciate it. There is something absolutely encouraging when a meaningful discussion can be had and we can still walk away disagreeing, but in good spirits, and a little wiser. Thank you

>>22040 NOW THAT IS THE VIS THAT I KNOW! Thank you for the kind words. I take pride in the fact that you see that we share many of the same ideals and that we are simply coming at it from different directions.

I am glad that voice is quiet here as it allows the opportunity for the grown-ups to talk without the distracing name calling and whining.

The concept of the great uniter is a good one. All parties working towards the same result (a better, stronger, healthier more viable place to live and raise). Unfortunately, as you stated, many hands in the pot are making a mess of it for their own gain (personally I believe this is akin to criminal actions) regardless of party affiliation.

BTW, Proud to be one of the 75!

>>22039 >>22039 Dollars do not equate to success. C'mon, you published a book! You were in the process of making a movie with your grandfather, you are a skilled artist in cartoonery. You care about your country enough to engage in debates, you listen to arguments from other views and you stand by your principles. You run this cool bar. All of these are marks of success. Coincidently 2 years ago I also made less than $20K. It's a slow climb back up. '09-'10 were tough, draining years. I count my blessings and my will to work low and hard for my own recovery.

BTW, what is Paleo?

And welcome to the 40's. I'm two years into it and it's not as bad as it is made out to be.

>>22020 Obama was the sensible choice for me. His skin color made my vote historic (as a vote against him COULD BE SEEN as historic - I'm not making that argument). None of this makes me racist, as I follow the issues very closely, I don't make wild claims, and I believe there is good in every person.

Obama's message of "hope and change" (something others were mocking) struck a chord with me. Imagine the possibilities if all politicians could sing the same song in harmony (they could if they wanted to). It was exciting and that was a big part of my vote. But some prefer to be lied to and told what to think. I'm not one of those. I believe in being better than we were yesterday.

You and I will probably agree on a whole host of social issues, and we are lucky to have that connection. I am confused by others who do not think as clearly, who throw around crazy accusations and continue the hate (you'll notice one of those voices extremely quiet on this thread). I think we should be better than that in our society. I think we should challenge each other to be better, either directly or indirectly (spoiler alert #2)

The numbers on who-voted-for-who have been published for quite some time. I happen to agree with them. The fact that Romney got 47% of the popular vote is quite ironic, but I believe it. Many of those who would stick with Romney through thick and thin did so simply because a nigger in the white house can't be a good thing. I don't believe you did that, but I believe many did.

>>22019 As always, Oldballs, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and effort in composing your thoughts.

I'm glad you think I'm a success!! That makes me feel good! :D I'm single, no children, no wife. I rent my home. I have two cats. I eat Paleo. I made less than 20K two years ago. I work with Veterans for a living. I have about 75 friends on facebook. In terms of my life up to this point, I have accomplished very little. I'm healthy, in general, I turn 40 next month.

If you define all of that as a "success", then I guess I should feel very lucky (and guilty??). I don't feel my standing on the socio-economic ladder is any higher than anybody else. The fact that I live in Orange County perhaps works against me in some way, but I was born here and I will remain as long as I can afford to. It doesn't make me better than anyone else.

>>22024 learning new words!

I was raised knowing what wetbacks, degos, guinnys, negro, spics, beaners, porch monkeys, moolies, spooks, jew, hymie, camel jockey, kikes, ruskie, slopes, Aunt Jemima, Coon, Jigaboo, Spade, honkie, chink, Kraut, gook, nip, honkie, sand nigger, mick, paddy, limey, and wop were. And not once was I ever taught to discriminate against someone simply because of their heritage.
I may be very very far from politcally correct, as I do miss those names as a part of nostalgia, I am not prejudice towards people based soley on their heritage.

More on the 47% comment:
I am and have been part of that 47% for the last eight years or better. I have paid in and recieved in return all of my federal taxes. I disagree with the freeloader comment, because I am no freeloader.

>>21946 Agreed GG. The video presents itself well and without bias. Vis's spoiler #2 is the issue that has become prominent in this thread. As I stated before, it was a loaded comment. A means of baiting the subject of racial discrimination into the open. If a pollock tells a polish joke is that racist? Yes. If a JayZ calls 50cent a nigger is that racist? Yes. Was that video offensively biased by show an obtrusively large number of black people? No. Was the spoiler alert#2 comment unjustified? Yes (IMO).
Perhaps a little "white priviledge" guilt Vis? Feeling bad because you have been successful and instead of applauding your good descisions that got you here, feeling guilt for those that have been less lucky or made bad descisions, leading them to a lower rung on the social ladder.

Don't feel bad Vis. There are alot of people that share in that feeling of guilt for their success.

>>21931 No, I am not a birther, I do not support that goose chase. If it were true, this should have been vetted long before now.

I do not believe that 47% of americans are free loaders. I do believe that there are a vast number of people who have an entitled mentality towards the government. I have witnessed this at an elementary school here in town were the kids see 7th grade as there last year in school because they have no concept of trying to better themselves and choose the easy route of public aid and/or incarceration. (and before you offer some feel good solution, trust me, I am involved in mentoring them towards a better choice).

Being black does not make you a better candidate for president any more than being white or any other color or sex or race. Being black did help him get elected though as you pointed out here. You and countless others voted based on his skin color. A "hey, lets try something new" approach. That is racist.

Racism:
In the words of the UN, "superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and that there is no justification for racial discrimination, in theory or in practice, anywhere."

When you ask if I am a racist or have been racist in the past, I have to claim no. I have been guilty of and will continue to be prejudiced based on my thoughts, observations and opinions. Race plays no part in my predjudicies, the way some presents themselves does.

I didn't disagree with the numbers because they don't bode well for me. I disagreed with them because I do not know their accuracy or their source, they could be an incomplete cross section of voters. Biases exist. Don't form your opinions based on polls. Popularity isn't all that it is cracked up to be.

Above all Vis, thank you for being fair and considering the fact that I may not fall into the mold that had cast for the non-Obama supporters. I appreciate that.

>>21930 That is funny.

We're all probably guilty of making racist jokes, comments etc at one time or another. I'm working on that. My father was a bigot. Mom wasn't. Some of that stuck but I'm working on it. The video only showed Kelly singing with Obama looking on. So? Why should we be talking about racism from the video?. If black folk voted for a black man it isn't any different than white folk voting for a white man, which they do.

>>21943 I've never claimed racism DOESN'T exist. I've only claimed that I'm personally guilty of it, and that we have a black president partially as a result of it. Why anyone would be offended by that, I'm not sure..

You're pulling rabbits out of a hat, Vis. Racism in this country exists. Period. Racism exists throughout the world. Another period.

>>21930 love it! XD

>>21929 You agree racism is alive and well in America, but you disagree with the numbers because they don't bode well for you? Or the Republican party? That's a cop out. The black vote went to Obama in HUGE NUMBERS, and the white vote went to Romney. That's not opinion. That is skin color working FOR the president.

I voted for him because he was the better candidate, and I wanted to be part of history in electing the first black president. That's not opinion.

I'll be fair with you, Oldballs. I'm sure you didn't really factor in Obama's blackness when you voted. I assume you just didn't like his policies. Maybe you questioned his place of birth or thought his employment history was lacking. All fair things to consider when voting for a president.

I'm sure many others who voted against Obama felt the same exact way. But also, it didn't help that he was black. ;) What percentage was that? You don't think it matters?

Do you agree that 47% of Americans are free-loaders?

You are smarter than this Vis.

I don't disagree that the color of Barack Obama's skin played a part in this and the last election. The argument that it worked for or against him is a matter of opinion and ultimately any of the numbers that you have presented or present in the future are suspect. Every piece of data gathered has flaws in that it does not tell a complete story, only the story that you present it as.

AP polls, like all polls, are shallow numbers and capable of manipulation and spin.

I don't put a lot of weight in polls and I am surprised that you rely on them as you seem to.

Am I guilty of being racist in my life? Absolutely. How about you?

I'm speaking specifically of one target - Obama - of which I make direct reference to, by race, in my spoiler, as I believe it would matter to some people.

From the AP Poll done in November 2012:

"51% of Americans now express EXPLICIT anti-black attitudes, compared with 48% in a similar 2008 survey. When measured by an IMPLICIT racial attitudes test, the number of Americans with anti-black sentiments jumped to 56%, up from 49% in 2008."

I would NEVER say everyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist. Some folk with anti-black attitudes voted for him, and some didn't. He only won by small margins.

"Although Repubs were more likely than Dems to express racial prejudice in the questions measuring EXPLICIT racism (79% R, 32% D), the IMPLICIT test found little difference between the two parties (55% D, 64% R)."

Let's admit race plays a big part in our views of blacks in government. Just imagine the black man who wants to take guns away from all-law abiding citizens, so only the criminals (minorities) have them. That's pretty scary.

We all sometimes say/write stuff that probably wasn't the best thought through.

At least nobody bashed the potus in this thread (yet)

>>21917 Sounds and reads lot more like guilt.

And yes racism exists and is multi-directional without one general source or target.

I would rather not just disagree. If you have found evidence to prove otherwise, please present it. I am and have always been willing to listen to both sides and present my opinions Vis, you know that.

>>21916 We'll just have to disagree, Oldballs. I think racism is alive and well in America, but it's an ugly topic so we don't discuss it, and no one really wants to be labeled as such. Nor do some want to be labeled "obese", but that doesn't mean they aren't.

>>21914 You better do some more reviewing Vis, as this is the closest I can find. http://merlins-bar.com/threads/2107.html#19873
Still no support for the spoiler comment.

>>21903 I think a thorough review of past comments will support my spoiler alert, Oldballs. ;)

>>21911 Does Hoshi spook easily around mirrors? ;D

>>21903 I think my cat Hoshi might not like black people. She usually loves to meet delivery people when they knock on the door, but yesterday it totally freaked her out... ...for the first time I can recall it was a black guy. You'd think she'd be cool with seeing as she is black too!?! :D

Fair warning about the president is one thing. Your comment about spoiler #2 makes it sound more like you are under the ussumption that someone here dislikes black people. There may be plenty of disdain referenced toward Mr.Obama, but I doubt if any of it has been racially based.
Your comment seems loaded, Vis.

For anyone who has a meltdown anytime they see the president, or hear his name, I give fair warning that Obama appears in the video. And though he has absolutely nothing to do with the beautiful performance, he will still be blamed for ruining it, somehow, as he is blamed for everything that is wrong with America (past, present and future). I am giving fair warning to anyone who might be so offended at the very sight of the man. ;)

This is Kelly Clarkson?? WTF happened, MacD or just D?

>>21884 I gotta agree with odb on the black thing(s). Please explain

And yes, amazing voice. Not lip-synched.

>>21884 By my count I see 8. What is the purpose of the spoiler alert #2? It's not like they were the focus of the video. It's likely that the focus of the video was Ms.Clarkson and Mr.Obama. You confuse me Mr.Vis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG2LnxYx3jU&list=UUqnbDFdCpuN8CMEg0VuEBqA&index=7

Kelly Clarkson singing at the inauguration.

Spoiler Alert 1: She has an amazing voice

Spoiler Alert 2: There are black people in the video.

My entire site catheads.net was shut down last night at approx 5pm PST. I called GoDaddy and they admitted one of their databases that houses my database was having a problem. My site was back up within the next 2 hours..

I tried moments before I mailed you and I got the SQL error. Any freaking luck with freaking host finding?

>>21875 Hmm, posting seems to work just fine.

Testicles, testicles, 1, 2, 3

great talents (.)(.) v45?

Kelly Clarkson won the first American Idol. I've only recently become a fan as I think she has a great talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn676-fLq7I

>>21864 Kelly Clarkson... ...whoever that is...

who's the blond in the front?

Although that guy had constant problems with his pants zipper he never really had sex with any woman including Hillary.

Great snap!! XD